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Player Retention Tactics (devblog / feedback request)


Xavier
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Stating the point of this post for those who completely missed it: To gain other points of view and suggestions at how to tackle the issue without dulling the game for existing players

 

One of the most prominent issues with our DayZ gamemode has to do with new player retention.

When a new player comes online, there isn't much to guide them on what the server is, or how to properly enjoy it. People also have a hard time seeing the 'end game' part of it. I'm planning on bringing back the loading screen we used to have that details out the gamemode as well as perhaps making the "Newbie guide" more visible. That's good and all, but I want to bring up a sensitive topic.

I'm afraid the arrival of highscores (highest total kill count, highest killstreak, etc) and people wanting rewards for becoming a bounty will further encourage ruthless slaughter of newbies. I don't want to get into the whole permanent friendly / bandit realm as it really feasible in the long run. I also don't want to have glowing players with say a 30 second "spawn immunity" as that just breaks the immersion.

However, we've been brainstorming on something that has the potential to be successful. We want to discourage those ruthless kills that effectively doom the future of the server's popularity. We see a few potential ways of achieving this.

1 - Categorizing new players with a "noob" model (Ghillie suit?) or a green crosshair outline when aimed at. This categorization would have to be done through levels (e.g someone under level 3) or a combination of play time (Say 12 hours)

2 - A penalty would have to be applied for damaging or killing these freshies (Unless they shoot first). This would either be through:

2.1 - Damage reflection (Say you hit a noob for 50HP, you would lose 25 (rates up for discussion))

2.2 - Not incrementing your frag count or even lowering it. This way you can't just ruthlessly farm noobs to boost your E-Penis in the  highscores or become a bounty

2.3 - Loot could simply not drop or be partially destroyed during the death process. I've been thinking about making the painkillers you spawn with not drop on death

 

Reminder: A lot of you complain about the lack of population, but the first thing you do when you get on is brutally slaughter the future of our player base. Let's address this, together.

 

 

 

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Overall, we're looking to expand and strengthen the CSi name. The only way we get to do that is by expanding our member base and improving the outlook towards ourselves as a community. This is a great way to get the ball rolling as we begin to delve deeper into the gmod rabbit hole. As with any community and game, we are trying to cater to the highest common denominator of our player base. We are solving an issue that has plagued us since the beginning. We understand some people won't like these changes. Some people might get lost in confusion. The take away from this is that we, as those who brandish the csi name in one way or another, all want one thing. For the CSi name to strive and prosper. Although change can be unsettling, it is necessary for us to evolve.

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Aimbot, they do so because they are dominated by vets, and repeat what they've seen in order to attempt to stay on even footing. It's the only thing they think the server is about: pointless killing.

I for one would opt for the destruction of newb drops and stat degradation based on a combination of time spent in world and level. I would stand by an && statement that requires both criteria in order to be labelled a new player comprised of 6-12 hours in the map, and a level under 3 (0-2, but not lvl 3).

The crosshair color is a great idea for distances that are too far for the player text to come up, but how would it work inside of scopes? 

Change starts with us, and shouldn't be on the new guys. The vets and regulars need to start to alter ingame behavior before we see improvements. This includes, but is not limited to, offering tips to players, donating banked items to players who don't know what they should bank/who can't bank as well as experienced players, helping them navigate the marketplace and what's valuable, helping them buy attachments/perks, grouping with a new player until they get comfortable with the gamemode, inviting them to our discord and helping them feel welcome in our little corner of gmod. Nobody wants to willingly go back into a hostile environment, so I'm all for any counter-measures that encourage these behaviours. /rant/

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What I am taking from this is that you guys are going to implement a way for us to not kill new people in the server or fresh spawns. Sounds like a good direction to be heading, However what happens if a new player gets fully geared and starts running at you but does not shoot. If we kill him we get penalized if we do not then the other person has the upper hand. Curious to what the goal of the game is going to be now if its not just pointlessly killing each other. Is it going to be somewhat of an RP?

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7 minutes ago, Jonathan said:

What I am taking from this is that you guys are going to implement a way for us to not kill new people in the server or fresh spawns. Sounds like a good direction to be heading, However what happens if a new player gets fully geared and starts running at you but does not shoot. If we kill him we get penalized if we do not then the other person has the upper hand. Curious to what the goal of the game is going to be now if its not just pointlessly killing each other. Is it going to be somewhat of an RP?

I don't see it as a step towards rp, I think of this set of ideas as a way to help new players catch up to speed before contending with the big boys. The number of new players that will abuse this system will be hopefully less than the number of regulars who are abusing the current system for stat pads.

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2 hours ago, Jonathan said:

However what happens if a new player gets fully geared and starts running at you but does not shoot. If we kill him we get penalized if we do not then the other person has the upper hand.

I agree completely, this could be a bit fucked. Instead why not have it just penalize us for players who are unarmed? Such as not holding out a weapon of any sort.

4 hours ago, Xavier said:

2.2 - Not incrementing your frag count or even lowering it. This way you can't just ruthlessly farm noobs to boost your E-Penis in the  highscores or become a bounty

This will definitely be a good route to take if you wish to stop the freshie slaughtering. Maybe have it so unarmed people don't count as a kill? Yaknow, for the E-Penis :classic_wink:

4 hours ago, Xavier said:

2 - A penalty would have to be applied for damaging or killing these freshies (Unless they shoot first). This would either be through:

2.1 - Damage reflection (Say you hit a noob for 50HP, you would lose 25 (rates up for discussion))

Idk about this tbh, but as I said above maybe for unarmed noobs?

3 hours ago, AimbotBTW said:

Is this Becoming an rp server :FeelsSpecialMan::895295046_HeavyBreathing::FeelsSadMan:

And Lets be honest here normally the players that are crying in global about any of the players killing them are killing others themselves

Just going to insert a Yikes here.

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6 hours ago, Xavier said:

2.2 - Not incrementing your frag count or even lowering it. This way you can't just ruthlessly farm noobs to boost your E-Penis in the  highscores or become a bounty

 

2.3 - Loot could simply not drop or be partially destroyed during the death process. I've been thinking about making the painkillers you spawn with not drop on death

Adding these 2 together make the most sense to me, if you're killing freshies you should get 0 reward for doing it, and should mostly be penalized for doing it.

6 hours ago, Xavier said:

1 - Categorizing new players with a "noob" model (Ghillie suit?) or a green crosshair outline when aimed at. This categorization would have to be done through levels (e.g someone under level 3) or a combination of play time (Say 12 hours)

This one could also work just for seeing people in the distance.

6 hours ago, Xavier said:

 

2 - A penalty would have to be applied for damaging or killing these freshies (Unless they shoot first). This would either be through:

2.1 - Damage reflection (Say you hit a noob for 50HP, you would lose 25 (rates up for discussion))

I feel like this one just wouldn't work, If you can clearly see the enemy has a gun and you go to shoot him and end up dealing damage to yourself to they might be able to kill you just by luck (and the hit reg being doo doo sometimes 😉 ). Maybe if they have a gun with ammo instead of "Unless they shoot first" would be a better way of keeping it balanced?

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Also if there's a way of fixing the retarded Dv2's hit registry I think that would also help new players, Example: I went to back stab someone standing still, and it didnt even register I hit so I ended up dying.

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I see great potential in these ideas. If addressed correctly this would most definitely lead to an increase in player base. I myself am a "newbie" killer ;P. But in all seriousness the only reason I kill everyone no matter what is because every time i used to spare someone, they would kill me and take my loot even after handing them a gun xD.

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I'd like to see this implemented so that we can actually focus on the new players that come on in and need some help. Punishments on players that kos on the noobies will give a better wake up call to not mess with them and to give them a chance to learn everything on our server. Its easier for you to say you would try to play the game and deal with it, but if I was a noob then I would've loved for this to be put in back when I started so I wasn't getting screwed every second and acting lost. We need more ways of helping the new guys so that they can play like us. (Not like me lol)

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1) Increase range of proximity chat, so people can actually play around with freshies without having to hug em

2) Make a way so that you can view someone's inventory (with their permsission ofc), similar to pressing t for trade. So that way, we can 100% confirm that someone is a freshie and not someone with a gun but with it away.

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What players don't get off of the jump, for lack of patience, is the necessity to sneak, and the map(s) doesn't present it in a way that would lead to that naturally other then bush trickery and perceptive evasion, methods too deep for a new player to understand within their first 3 deaths. If we assume 3 deaths as the threshold for abandonment, 1/3 spawns need to almost immediately present opportunity for the simplest mechanic of play: Hiding like a little bitch. In fact, I have the most fun just after I find valuables, but just before I'm a threat, where the combination of potential loss and impotence leads to very slow, very methodical play, checking corners and scanning rooftops before running across streets. Getting to this step is important for all players as it represents the nature of combat later when you get your equipment straight and are an actual threat, but if new players don't experience the cornered animal feeling, they'll never want to build their way to the flipside, a predator.

The SZ storage violates this development, as well as the B E A U T I F U L item economy(kill for food, one pistol could feed 10 players over time, etc), but I don't mean this negatively: Players accustomed to the environment should be able to skip the initial buildup as they already understand the nature of gameplay, and this should be represented by the bounty system; Players spawning from SZ should spawn with a bounty(derived from bank contents AND inventory), albeit shouldn't necessarily be listed as it currently is, this will make money flow and give less incentive to kill players without guns, and without breaking immersion(unlisted bounty -> BANDIT -> MURDERER). The increased monetary gain means a merchant rework, where guns should be offered more regularly but at steeper prices, perhaps derived from equipment left behind in despawned backpacks.

Backpacks, too, are a bit wasted, where the threat of standing in the street with your inventory open often leaves that backpack unchecked, despawned, and wasted. This is outside my range of development, but being able to pick up and move backpacks offers more diverse looting, as well as maintaining the idea of leaving that backpack in the street as a trap. It's the least concerning idea I'll offer, but one that would add a lot of depth to the economy.

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giving me a penalty for killing freshies wont stop me lol if you really want people to stay give them a youtube vid on improving their aim in fps games and group with them also remove the shitty guns they think are good like the uzi, mac10, mp5s, etc | also the population is decreasing because they all get shit on and begin to cheat there are 256 players that have been banned already

Edited by peatreat
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On 10/22/2018 at 11:15 AM, Rolchax said:

 

Change starts with us, and shouldn't be on the new guys. The vets and regulars need to start to alter ingame behavior before we see improvements. This includes, but is not limited to, offering tips to players, donating banked items to players who don't know what they should bank/who can't bank as well as experienced players, helping them navigate the marketplace and what's valuable, helping them buy attachments/perks, grouping with a new player until they get comfortable with the gamemode, inviting them to our discord and helping them feel welcome in our little corner of gmod. Nobody wants to willingly go back into a hostile environment, so I'm all for any counter-measures that encourage these behaviours. /rant/

I can't agree more with this statement, if we really want to see changes the vets really should be more kind to the new players and give them chances, I've really wanted and pushed for better treatment of fresh spawns/new players that are defenseless and with xav suggestions with helping these players out, im looking forward to a more positive vibe from new players.

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3 hours ago, peatreat said:

giving me a penalty for killing freshies wont stop me lol if you really want people to stay give them a youtube vid on improving their aim in fps games

This is the literal embodiment of "JUST GET BETTER AT SHOOTING LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL 4Head"

It's a non-answer that doesn't solve the issue at hand. People are leaving because it's the top 1% of players wiping the floor with the bottom 99%. Something has to be done and since a change in behavior towards new players is unlikely to happen, a discussion needs to be had about what should be implemented to improve the server's atmosphere.

3 hours ago, peatreat said:

giving me a penalty for killing freshies wont stop me lol ... the population is decreasing because they all get shit on

This attitude breeds the "I'm playing in the MLG GMod DayZ circuit so I need to pad my KDR as much as possible and at any cost." This is not healthy in the long-term.

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no one said this game was some mlg competition or whatever what I SAID was that they get killed and leave instead of trying to get better and kill the better players so you are putting words into my mouth and yes it is all about "just get better at shooting" i don't see myself in the wrong

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I will start my post by stating I am 100% on board with helping newspawns. I have always been a huge proponent of exposing the disparity between new players and veterans as well as the skill ceiling as a whole. It can be shown throughout the half decade of this server, that the knowledgeable prevail and those who are not, are to be squashed like a bug.  This way of thinking and the epistemology behind it has only increased the gap between new and old and is not what we need as we continue to expand the server as well as maintain it.

The "just get good 4head" mentality that our current members/players who have played our server in time's past is a mentality that only breeds toxicity and does not further our server's cause. We can't just tell new players that the only thing they need is to learn how to play fps games and then rejoin because that is not the answer. Game mechanics, small tips and tricks with weapons/buildings etc, game mode knowledge and map knowledge all factor into the umbrella term of "skill". All of these are things that many of our vets are intermediates or at the most, experts. Trying to dispel the situation with a "just git gud" attitude should never be an answer that we need to tell new players.

I also want to say that all those traits that fall under "skill" can't be obtained when they are constantly getting slaughtered by the dozens. We want concurrent players. We want players who fall in love in the game as much as the ones who have stuck around with us have in the past. I'm glad to see that there are a few people who have stuck around despite being mass murdered and not having as enjoyable of a time as others. I have listened to these people vent about getting on at specific times to avoid specific players out of fear that they'll be gunned down mercilessly. I've had some people say that they're on the verge of just quitting because of how apparent it is that new spawns aren't rewarded for their time or that there's no incentive for their time if all they're doing is playing black screen simulator. 

 

Overall, we're having more and more people complain about our server for these very things. We're seeing little in the improvement of players wanting to stay. If we want to see this server flourish then the blame has to be put on us. Same as how change starts with us. If you're willing to continues straddling away from progress then you will be under the boot of progress. Simple as that.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Personally I don't think this can ever be solved except by doing this, the good players want easy kills and lets face it 9/10 times as a fresh spawn someone spares you, you get a gun. Usually you try to kill them, I think it goes both ways and its not just the Bandits fault. My solution is Fresh spawns don't drop painkillers and don't spawn with a weapon, making them less of a threat. And by killing a fresh spawn your "Reputation" goes down 25 points kind of like Unturned, Your Reputation depends on how much cash they drop and effects certain perks like bonus ammunition drop and would slow down health regeneration. So if you go around murdering innocent fresh spawns it will effect you in the long run. The less your reputation the worse the affects but however killing Bandits would add lets say 50 points back to your reputation so there is a way to earn your points back. 

     I think there should be a fresh spawn timer of 5 minutes and after 5 minutes they are considered a player and can be killed without punishment. Some ways to tell if someone is a fresh spawn is maybe a different skin or like Xavier said a green crosshair when hovering over that player. And this is my last suggestion, on tab next to someones name it should state Newbie if the player has less than 2 hours of playtime on the server, once the period is over in the bottom right it should say Example: Johnny has graduated from Newbie! As a way to notify the server that they have gained another player in their community and should check him out to see if he maybe wants to team.

   Of course this wont fix all our problems and it will take some work but I think it will help alot!

           Thanks for reading

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